In Conversation with M’hammed Kilito

Documentary photographer M’hammed Kilito (Moroccan, b. 1981, Lviv, Ukraine) talks to Elina Sairanen about his career, the decision to become a photographer, the use of visual sociology in his practice and reflects on his work through an in-depth conversation of some of his photographic series including Destiny, Portrait of a Generation: Among You and Hooked to paradise. Currently, M’hammed is part of Cortona On The Move AlUla 2022 Festival with the aforementioned Hooked to paradise series; an ongoing, long-term, multidisciplinary art project that highlights the complex and multidimensional issues of oasis degradation in Morocco and its impact on its inhabitants. The exhibition at AlUla closes on 30 March 2022 – make sure to check it out if you are in KSA. 

Hicham, Tighmert (2021), from ‘Hooked to paradise’ series. Youth emigration is one of the major problems facing the oases of southern Morocco. Many of the young people I met are considering crossing illegally to the Canary Islands due to global warming, water crises, lack of job opportunities, isolation and lack of primary resources. This has a negative impact on the maintenance of the oases, which need their youth to take care of them. Hicham emigrated to France for a year and after doing several difficult and poorly paid jobs, he decided to return to Morocco. To his surprise, no one encouraged him. Especially his family, who he thought would support him in his decision, had a very negative reaction. Today, Hicham is a fulfilled young man, happy to be in Morocco. He lives in Agadir and works in an association that helps integrate street children. Image courtesy of Gowen Contemporary Gallery.

Elina Sairanen: Hello M’hammed, it’s great to meet you. Could you please introduce yourself to our readers?

M’hammed Kilito: Hello Elina, all the pleasure is mine. My name is M’hammed Kilito, I’m a documentary photographer based in Rabat, Morocco. I lived in Morocco until I was 18 and then moved to Canada to pursue my higher education in Political Science. I worked as a researcher and program coordinator at the Social Planning Council of Ottawa and then moved to Montreal to work in advertising. I have always had an interest in visual arts and particularly photography that I was regularly practicing. But It was only very late, at the age of 34, that I decided to quit my 9-to-5 job, move back to Morocco and focus solely on a career in photography. 

ES: Could you tell us more about your path of becoming a photographer? Was photography an obvious career choice for you?

MK: The first turning point came one day in 2007 in Ottawa, when I received a scholarship to take photography courses through a portfolio programme at the Ottawa School of Art. One night, around midnight, while I was working on my prints in the darkroom to prepare for my first small exhibition at a coffee shop, I met Mauricio, a photography professor who ran the darkroom in the school. He came to see me and told me that he found my images thought-provoking; they were staged photographs. At that time, I was very influenced by the Spanish photographer Chema Madoz and I can certainly share with you how badly I imitated him.

That same night in the darkroom, Mauricio started talking to me about Peter Greenaway, Susan Sontag and Roland Barthes and I had no idea who they were. For example, it was through Sontag’s writings that I discovered the work of Diane Arbus, Kertesz, Man Ray and Robert Frank, and it was only later that I saw their photographs. A few months passed and I ended up taking a class with Mauricio who was the first important person to encourage and push me to do photography, to lend me photo books and to guide me. He was certainly an influence and a decisive encounter in the path I have followed until today.

I also had this very instructive experience by being part of the Montreal Photobook Club, where I learned a lot by exchanging with other photographers as passionate as I am about photo books. I began to discover new photographers, to better understand the importance of long-term projects and the construction of a sequence of images. The club members were so fascinated by the artistic approaches of the photographers, the textures of the book covers, the paper used and the editing of the images. They saw the books not only as photobooks, but as art objects.

Little by little photography started to take up a lot of space in my life, I spent all my time reading about photography. Sundays were for learning and getting inspired by walking through the galleries of Montreal. Weekday evenings, I used to shoot fashion in a studio I had access to and did some street photography. One day, I realised that every time I had a creative idea it was related to Morocco. My native culture was catching up with me and I felt more and more the need to leave everything and go back to Morocco to work on a photo project. The real turning point came one day, after finishing work, I summoned up all my courage and decided to leave Canada after living there for almost 15 years and return to Morocco to dedicate myself to photography.

So, to answer your question, yes, photography has always been a very serious and obvious career choice. Lack of financial security and fear of failure do not make the choice easy and are often major obstacles to overcome. Those who succeed, in general, are not necessarily the best, but those who believe in themselves and dare to take the risk. If they succeed, it is finally thanks to quality work, perseverance and a great discipline. 

Afterwards, I worked really hard and had the chance to participate in different programs and festivals such as the Arab Documentary Photography Program, Addis Foto Fest. I also did an assignment with Magnum Foundation and The Washington Post, and was selected to participate in the Eddie Adams Workshop. All these experiences allowed me to meet and work with great photographers/editors and to better understand their work process and ethics. Then, there were decisive encounters with actors of the industry that helped me greatly and still help me in becoming a better photographer today.

Anas says he has problems with his family at home. They do not call him by his first name but by saying ‘the tattooed one’. This qualification, which is pejoratively meant, says a lot about the stigmatisation of tattooed people in the Moroccan collective imagination, because they are considered criminals, prisoners and dangerous people. He is a Peter-Pan, in the midst of adults, lost in issues beyond his control. From ‘Among You’ series. Image courtesy of Gowen Contemporary Gallery.

ES: You studied Political Science at the University of Montreal (BA) and Ottawa University (MA). How do you think your academic path has informed or influenced your photography practice? How did you, then, transition to become a photographer?

MK: The concepts that interest me and my research methodology are largely inspired by my studies in social sciences. Photography beyond its aesthetic aspect is a tool that allows me to highlight socio-political issues and to inform on the general situation of Morocco. I find that photos are able to reveal more than words or statistics. There are many statistics in reports, but we rarely hear about feelings. By photographing my collaborators and sharing their testimonies, I seek to humanise differences, to share stories rarely covered by the media and largely unknown to the general public. Above all, my work enables me to engage reflection in order to shake up preconceived ideas.

Otherwise, reading, seeing an exhibition or a dance show, watching a movie, going on a road trip or any other activities could inspire me to think of a new project. If I had to choose only one, I would have chosen to travel without any hesitation. Most of my projects have been thought out and decided during my travels. 

ES: Your work examines group dynamics and relationships between people and their environments and it is related to cultural identities, sociology of work and climate change. How did you arrive at these themes and focuses? What kind of political or societal value does your work have?

MK: These are topics I stumble upon through discussion, reading, keeping my eyes open and doing research. The common link between all the topics I work on is my interest in groups and individuals and the dynamics that are created by interacting with the environment in which they evolve.

Of course, like many documentary photographers, I would have liked my projects to bring about a real change, but for that to happen, it is necessary to do activist work that goes beyond taking pictures, exhibiting and publishing. I am working on this aspect for my ongoing project.

For the moment, it is very important to me through my photographic series to enact a counter-discourse to what is usually shared in the media and which does not represent a comprehensive perspective of Morocco specifically and the region in general. I strongly believe that when practicing photography, in what is called the Global South or the Majority World, we must necessarily be socially conscious and show what others have not experienced or seen. I feel that it is our role and duty as photographers from the region to impose balance in the narratives and show that we can also photograph for example the humanist and courageous sides of our people as opposed to the sensationalist, orientalising and often dramatic photos that are usually shown of Africa and the Middle East.

Born in a working-class neighbourhood and raised by a traditional family, Salma has always struggled to be herself. She is a Goth and loves the strange, the enigmatic and the unusual. She presents an ideal of beauty uncommon in Morocco and she particularly appreciates what is considered frightening, worrying or ugly under the standards of society. From ‘Among You’ series. Image courtesy of Gowen Contemporary Gallery.

ES: In the series Portrait of a Generation you question the different realities of Moroccan youth. This series was inspired by the Report New Integrated National Initiative for Moroccan Youth released by the Economic, Social and Environmental Council in August 2018, presenting some quite alarming results about the rates of school drop-outs and unemployment, the lack of social security coverage and psychological problems. Could you tell us more about this series? What would you like to achieve through it? What kind of ‘findings’ did you have through this series? 

MK: Indeed, as you noted, the series Portrait of a Generation is about the realities of Moroccan youth. It is a project inspired by the Report New Integrated National Initiative for Moroccan Youth released by the Economic, Social and Environmental Council in August 2018, which presented alarming figures about youth between the ages of 15 and 34. Two out of every three young Moroccans drop out of school, the unemployment rate is about 20%, half of the youth who are employed work in low-paying jobs, 75% do not have social security coverage, 20% suffer from psychological disorders, etc. The project is an investigation of today’s youth spread over different chapters (personal identity-Among you, rural youth-being produced at the moment thanks to the support of the National Geographic Society, social activities). I am interested in understanding how young Moroccans are navigating this harsh reality. What are their dreams and frustrations? How do they express themselves and find their place in society? What are the direct and sensitive consequences of all this on their daily behavior? 

Fatima Zohra: ‘I wanted to study scenography, because I like manual work, but also because I stammered a lot at the time. I did not use to do the oral exams in elementary school and did not read in class. However, I did not study scenography, because I realised after the two years of the core curriculum at ISADAC (Higher Institute of Dramatic Art and Cultural Animation) in Rabat, that when I was on stage, I did not stammer at all. I think because it’s another story that I express and not mine, and I liked very much being on stage, so I chose the performance and the stage and became an actress.’ From ‘Destiny’ series. Image courtesy of Gowen Contemporary Gallery.

ES: Destiny is a project researching the relationship between work and social determinism in Morocco. This doctrine holds that all human actions are ruled by their prior states, and that individuals have no influence in their decisions. Why did you want to do this particular work in Morocco? Do you think the concept is particularly applicable there? 

MK: The idea of the series came from a personal experience that goes back to middle school. As children, we often played soccer in the neighborhood where I grew up. When we got to high school, some of us went to the French school; others, like me, to the public one. However, the story of a close friend had left a deep impression on me. His father was the janitor in the building next door. He came to him one day and explained that he could no longer financially support the family. He (the father) asked him to leave school and start working as an apprentice butcher at the local butcher’s shop he had already spoken to. This he did, and at 14 years old, his choice of professional career, and therefore of life, was already sealed by social and economic determinism, at such a young age.

Yes, unfortunately social determinism is quite important in Morocco. In any case, according to the people we met during the project and who represent a varied sample of Moroccan society, only two women were able to do what they wanted, an actress and a fashion designer. For the less well-off and less educated, social determinism is often accompanied by economic determinism. Desired jobs are still achievable jobs based on educational attainment. Let’s say that they realistically dreamed of being a civil servant, a fisherman or a soldier. When it comes to the other social categories, it is often studies that are quite trendy depending on the generation, such as finance, engineering or medicine, while in most cases, they aspired to other jobs out of passion.

I easily came to the conclusion that society has a determining impact on the career choices we make. Social mobility is faltering and there are few possibilities of evolution when you are born in a slum, for example.

Mohammed: ‘As a child, I had a very difficult life, my father died in 1955, it was a woman my family knew who raised me, she had a little money and paid for my schooling. I was an intern in school from 1958 to 1962. In 1963, she didn’t have much money left and I had to leave school. When she was still working, she bought me cinema magazines. We only had cinema, there was nothing else during that time, there was no TV or anything, we had TV in 1961. We use to wait impatiently for Saturday and Sunday to go to the cinema star or revival movie theaters. Going to the movies was like going to I don’t know where, people wore their best clothes and there were good films and also good actors, not like now. One day, I had picked up a large quantity of cinema magazines and I went to sell them at a bookstore. He didn’t give me a good price and I decided to sell them myself, directly, without an intermediary. That’s how I got into the business.’ From ‘Destiny’ series. Image courtesy of Gowen Contemporary Gallery.

ES: In Destiny you used a visual sociology approach to research whether we are actors of our own lives or under social pressure in deciding our career choices. Could you discuss this method further vis-à-vis your practice? 

MK: Visual sociology is a collection of approaches in which researchers use photographs to portray, describe, or analyse social phenomena. There are two main methods to doing visual sociology, studying visual and archival data or communicating with images. I use the second one. 

Once I establish the concept on which I want to work, I start a research period by consulting experts, establishing a bibliography and reading books and scientific articles that allows better understanding of the object of matter. Once this work is finished, I take my camera and I try to verify everything on the field by taking pictures.  

Youssef: ‘My father was a farmer and when he had paralysis, I had to leave school and start helping him in the farm. In 1983, I became seriously mentally ill and lost my memory for few years, I started going to the sea with friends. Fishing and contemplating the sea made me feel better and I still do it today. Sooner or later, I’ll buy a boat and will start fishing.’ From ‘Destiny’ series. Image courtesy of Gowen Contemporary Gallery.

ES: Your work is centered on Morocco. Are you also dealing with your own identity as a Moroccan through your work? Moreover, how is your relationship? What kind of a change would you like to see?

MK: Yes, in a certain way we could say that by photographing others I’m also photographing myself. I’m dealing with my own identity as a Moroccan and my work helps me understand who I’m as an individual among others.

In Morocco, the 15 to 34 age group represents 11 million individuals, one-third of the population, according to the latest 2014 census. A treasure, according to all observers who are aware that the main competitive advantage of a Moroccan economy without significant natural resources is its workforce. I put all my hope in today’s youth. They are creative, connected, smart and educated. They must be given the opportunity to have their voices heard, to be more involved in the decision-making process. They constitute a real national wealth, a demographic asset, an actor of economic and social development and a lever of wealth creation.

Morocco has made a lot of progress in the last two decades, but there is still a lot to do. I wish for a freer Morocco, with far fewer prisoners of conscience and more fulfilled youth. I think that if we want to live in a fairer Morocco, everyone must take responsibility to create change and artists have also responsibility to provoke discussion, to provoke debate and to ask the right questions. 

Randa wears make-up and dresses up every day before going out in Tetouan, a city known to be quite conservative. She says she has always been a ‘weird’ child with a lot of imagination, attracted by the dark side, representing herself to the world differently from the others. ‘I have often been the victim of intimidation and sexual abuse, mainly because of my appearance.’ She was self-mutilation and suicidal. To fully accept herself, she went through a deep understanding of her unconventional personality. After a long work on herself, she admitted that society will never be a homogenised sphere. She sticks to what she intuitively believes in and has stopped worrying about any kind of external judgment. From ‘Among You’ series. Image courtesy of Gowen Contemporary Gallery.

ES: Could you describe your relationship to photography? What does it mean for you? Why did you choose this particular medium?

MK: I consider that each art form has its own specific elements and that the first main objective of any artist is to find a medium of personal expression, a language with which he can express what he feels within him. For me it was photography, this unique frame that suspends time and isolates space has always fascinated me. My photos or rather my projects are always arranged in a series of images, that’s what interests me. For the kind of work I do, I find that the individual images, in a way, don’t matter much. It’s when you see all the images together in a certain order that a sequence emerges to form a visual narrative that allows people to understand a more complete story. Taking pictures is not only an artistic act for me, it is above all a claim and a message that engages and invites for reflection.

However, today I am broadening my artistic expression and exploring new perspectives through different mediums such as video, archives, drawing, painting, installation, and sculpture. The process is that the idea will dictate the appropriate medium. Working across a variety of mediums allows different degrees of proximity and sensitivity towards the subject I’m studying. In this way, my multi-disciplinary installation allows for various levels of comprehension and connections to be made by the audience in order to have a better all-encompassing understanding.

Mohammed, Ait M’hanned (2021), from ‘Hooked to paradise’ series. Mohammed is one of the 4 families still living in the village of Ait M’hanned next to the oasis of Tighmert. Previously, the village was home to a hundred families. He explains that due to global warming and lack of work, most families have moved further north to cities like Guelmim and Agadir. Image courtesy of Gowen Contemporary Gallery.

ES: What kind of future plans do you have? Where can we see your work next? 

MK: I’m currently concentrating on the project Hooked to paradise, an ongoing, long-term, multidisciplinary art project that highlights the complex and multidimensional issues of oasis degradation in Morocco and its impact on its inhabitants.

Over the past few years, I have visited many oases, where I have made strong connections with its inhabitants. I was able to understand this rich environment but also its glaring realities. I realised that desertification, recurrent droughts and fires, overexploitation of natural resources, rural exodus and the sharp drop in the water table are all imminent threats to the existence of oases. According to official statistics from the Moroccan Ministry of Agriculture, over the last century, Morocco has already lost two-thirds of its 14 million palm trees.

This project is born out of urgency and collective demand to make this localised environmental issue shift to improve livelihood in my home country. I decided to work on this project to highlight these multiple concerns.

The main objective is to draw attention to this irreversible situation and the immediate attention it requires by alerting the public opinion, policymakers and relevant organisations as a campaign. It is also an utmost priority to protect the ancestral material and immaterial heritage of nomadic culture in Morocco, as well as the preservation of the oases ecosystem. 

With VII Photo Agency, I’m doing a two-year workshop and the few passing months were just breathtaking in terms of learnings. I’m very excited about what will follow. KOZ, the collective I co-founded, and Collective 220 from Algeria, are working on a common project that I cannot disclose at this time. I also have a commission with Les Ateliers Médicis and the National Centre for the Visual Arts in France that I will be producing this year in addition to a project I’m working on for the Biennale of Barcelona

Concerning exhibitions, the year is starting slowly but surely, we are currently having an online group exhibition with Emergeast called Dreaming Tomorrow curated by Nikki Meftah and Dima Abdul Kader the co-founders of Emergeast, who did a tremendous job as usual. Currently, I’m presenting for the first time a part of the photography project Hooked to paradise at Cortona On The Move AlUla in Saudi Arabia. In April, I’m invited to take part in a group exhibition in Abidjan. Later in the fall, I will show the integrity of Hooked to paradise as a multidisciplinary project with Gowen Contemporary, the gallery that represents my work in Geneva.

ES: What kind of advice would you give aspiring photographers or artists in general?

MK: I believe my path is different from the ones that other aspiring photographers could take, maybe what worked for me will not work for them. I usually borrow Werner Herzog’s response when asked this exact same question: ‘read, read, read, read, if you don’t read you will never be a good filmmaker’. I believe it applies also to documentary photography and to any other discipline. Reading is the best way to get more knowledge and to open up to different perspectives. 

Adding to that, sincere hard work, networking, persevering, taking advantage of your experiences, looking around you and other photographers’ work, believing in you and your ideas, never letting go especially during the hardest and most doubtful moments are all key to success.

Cluster of palm trees, Tanseest (2021), from ‘Hooked to paradise’ series. When we are in the dry and arid desert, there is one thing we look for almost instinctively and that is the green color. It is the promise of water and therefore of life. This is the last grouping of palm trees in Tanseest, what used to be an oasis 15 km from the town of Assa. Image courtesy of Gowen Contemporary Gallery.

See M’hammed’s Website here and follow him on Instagram here.

Image credit behind M’hammed’s portrait: Vladimir Gheorghiu.

Elina Sairanen

Elina Sairanen is a museologist, art historian and the co-founder of Mathqaf. Currently, she's pursuing a PhD in museology at the University of Leicester exploring the region's first pan-Arab art museums. When she is not writing or thinking about museums and art, you can find her in the countryside skiing and hiking.